NOTE: This post is NOT about Justin Bieber. It’s much deeper than that – it’s about our social behaviors, including of course zombie consumerism, and what I now like to call “reverse zombie consumerism”. You might have to read between the lines, so stay with me on this.
I’m not one to have Bieber Fever. Let me just clear that up right now. But it’s hard to not notice Justin Bieber nowadays. He’s in the news, he’s on interviews, night time talk shows, everywhere. He’s getting more exposure recently because of his new movie “Never Say Never”, of course. The biggest thing for me though, is my wife has recently begun tracking Bieber. A lot.
Even your grandmother has probably heard of Justin Bieber. This kind of phenomenon hasn’t happened since Michael Jackson became a child celebrity.
So at the beginning of the week, (just a few days after Bieber’s movie opened at the box office, and his rather disappointing defeat at the Grammys), I painted a portrait of The Biebs, and posted it on youtube.
[pro-player]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brV9HSvmGeo[/pro-player]
The reactions I got from my regular viewers were mostly “Hate Bieber, but I love your art.”
So I began to think “Why do people hate Bieber?”
I used to be a Bieber hater myself, but my wife pointed out something interesting – to hate someone, you need a reason. Otherwise, you’re just hating because other people hate too. This leads me to the main discussion here: How our society works.
I found out what I hated about Justin Bieber.
I started tracking Bieber, followed him, checked out his periodic tweets, his interviews, and his background. I must say, he’s a rather interesting subject. He started off singing on street corners before he was discovered by a talent agent who pushed him to Usher. Usher saw his talent and promoted him to what he is today. When I saw that youtube video of him singing on the street corner, with that sort of hopeful look in his eyes, I saw what it was that attracted people to him – his voice. It was a bit raw and inexperienced, but his voice was incredible, especially for his age. I’m a pretty good judge of voice talent, so I know this was genuinely good.
[pro-player]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-rb-utD5bg[/pro-player]
I heard he made about $500 a day doing this, and he used that money to treat his mom to a vacation. He reminds me of Michael Jackson when he was a child singer.
Check out the comments – there are a lot of one-liners insulting him, and expressing general hate.
People say that his voice sounds like a girl. Sure. But the kid was like, 14 years old or something. But on a performance level, he sings better than many of the mainstream artists out there now, including Katy Perry (sounds TERRIBLE live), and even his own mentor, Usher (also terrible live). This was demonstrated during the Grammys. He’s on par with some of the best American Idol voice talents, has excellent control and a fair bit of range. So the people that hate his voice, well… is that really a reason to hate someone?
People also say he’s gay. He’s got the hots for … countless celebrity women. So I don’t know where this is coming from either…
What I don’t like however, are his songs. But then again, I’m not really his target market here. I can see the appeal with the tweens and teen girls, but not my cup of tea. I know that a lot of people don’t like his songs. Most likely because they too are not his target market. So is that a reason to hate someone? I don’t watch Macross because it’s not my thing, but I don’t hate it.
It’s safe to say that Bieber has become slightly manufactured – his clothing, his style, his music, it’s all tailored to a specific target market yielding over 7 million twitter followers – more than most celebrities out there. A lot of people don’t like manufactured celebrities. Then again, tonnes of celebrities are manufactured personas. Looking back at Tora Dora, Ami was pretty much this, especially at the beginning of the show.
But after looking at Bieber’s interviews, and some of his off-stage moments, I have to say – while he is a manufactured product, his personality isn’t. He’s an honest-to-god good kid. He has his moments where he makes mistakes and does stupid things, but that’s what normal kids are like. His family keeps him grounded. He speaks honestly (he said Lady GaGa’s appearance at the Grammys was “weird” during an interview, for example), and he actively promotes the fact that he is Canadian, and how awesome Canada is at every opportunity he can. That’s good in my books.
Bieber showed up at the first Me to We event (the one where the Dalai Lama attended). This event was meant to inspire kids to do better, and make a difference in the world. In this regards, Bieber had to become a role-model. After tracking Bieber, I’ve seen some of the things that he’s done to help the world, and it’s a lot more than what most celebrities do. Yet he chooses to stay humble about it. He doesn’t brag about it, and doesn’t even like the idea that his good deeds should be documented. He says that doing that is like saying “Look at me! Look at all the good things I’m doing! I’m such a great person!” and he doesn’t believe in that. I don’t think the haters know this.
All this accumulates to a phenomenon that I am calling “Reverse Zombie Consumerism”.
We all know what Zombie Consumerism is (if you don’t, read my post dammit). Bieber’s fans are a product of that. The reverse though, are the haters and trolls. Think of it – what defines a troll? Someone who goes on forums/blogs/etc for the sole purpose of writing inflammatory remarks and provoke users to a desired response. Usually, they’re very general remarks such as “this sucks, that pwns.” The key here though, is that it’s usually not an informed opinion, but a generalization. Trolls typically don’t fully understand the topic of discussion, and just take a single opinion or impression and go with it.
Reverse Zombie Consumerism is like that – many of the haters and trolls out there don’t really know what Justin Bieber is about. They all find some sort of minuscule reason, and hate him for it. Mindless hate, or Zombie Consumerism in reverse. This isn’t just Bieber of course. This goes with all sorts of celebrities – Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, Michael Jackson, Mariah Carey etc.
I hated each of these celebrities at one point too. The products of this kind of anger and hatred usually results in some pretty damaging things. Britney basically went crazy, Mariah Carey fell into depression, Michael Jackson was deemed a pedophile, and Justin Bieber got a water bottle in the head. These celebrities are still human. No kid deserves a bottle to the head. I mean, seriously.
[pro-player]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ITsivZ_lCo[/pro-player]
It’s a good mix, though.
Danny Choo told me once “You know you’re successful when you get a lot of haters.” This is totally true, and we see it everyday with celebrities. “… but you have to use that to your advantage.” says John Chow. Considering Bieber’s fame, and his age, he takes this sort of abuse from haters pretty well.
I remember hearing about the time Bieber walked off an interview because he got sprayed with a bottle of juice. There was a HUGE fuss about it. But at the time, I didn’t really care about Bieber. Today, I looked up the video to see what the fuss was all about, and it was a big nothing. He reacted the same way anyone would. It’s weird, because like the fans, haters all see celebrities as a form of perfection as well, like deities. But as soon as the celebrity slips up, the haters come out like wolves and chew them up.
[pro-player]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKorZRhD-jc[/pro-player]
He gets sprayed at 3:36. Pay attention to his reaction.
One thing that really hit it home to me, and changed my impression of Justin Bieber was this video:
[pro-player]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMqVxJw1NI[/pro-player]
0:05 – bring on the PAIN!
At the very beginning of the song, he trips, and breaks his foot. Yet the show goes on. You can see him limping throughout the whole performance. Most singers would just stop and leave, leaving the fans confused and hanging.
Now, a movie has been released, Never Say Never. What I find interesting about this is that a lot of people are now split between whether to watch it or not. Even Mike and Mike on ESPN debate about it https://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6120427
I listen to the Kid Carson Show on the radio periodically, and even he’s been debating about it. This guy has his opinions, but is usually open-minded and willing to try stuff. He’s not a person to like Bieber’s music either. Regardless, he went to see the show, and what he said about it perked my interest. He said it was actually a very good movie. Everyone is talking about how inspiring the show is, and how Bieber’s life journey will inspire kids to never give up. Hence the title. Manufactured or not, if the movie is able to inspire kids to do better, and be better, that’s good in my books.
Honestly, if a guy with Justin Bieber’s personality wanted to date my daughter, I totally would be okay with it.
How does all this relate to crows? If you’ve read and understood everything I’ve said, and you know the background and behaviors of crows, then it should become blindingly obvious.
There’s a certain trend going on though… a positive one. Bieber isn’t the one that brings this about, but you can tell that the youths of this generation are connected in ways that are beyond my comprehension, and my generation. You could say instead that Bieber is a product of that trend. When I saw this video, I was moved.
[pro-player]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhYyAa0VnyY[/pro-player]
Looks like embedding is disabled. Watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlG3BMEHsCQ
This was done in Vancouver, to promote anti-bullying. Seeing this message delivered changes how I see our youth of today. The future of this planet is in good hands.
After seeing all this, what Bieber is about, and what the haters are all about, I have a new view of the world around me, and its people. It’s unfortunately, a grim one at the moment. The zombie consumerism, and even reverse zombie consumerism is still very strong, and causing torrents of instability that affect the world a lot greater than one can possibly imagine, but there’s still hope, I think.
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t be quite frank I’m not a fan, What i do hate, is mindless fandom. That is what irks most people, or at the very least, me.
I also would have to say thta I think for all the hype he’s receiving, he’s not THAT talented. it’s just that he’s MARKETABLE.
So all in all, I’m not a fan of his music or his fans.
You missed the point of this post. It’s not about him.
If you mindless fandom irks you, shouldn’t mindless hate also irk you? =P
“I hate XXX”, this what when someone arguing about something. But when ask them why and reason, many of them just couldn’t give out those reasons, genuinely come from the bottom of their heart. They just can’t give it out. Instead of it, all they can give is just some general reasons that many people already used.
Well, I think you can think some of those reasons by using your common sense. ><), and also at the side of haters, they not acknowledge your skill, think you are just lucky to become famous, or your existence is getting into their ways, misunderstood about you, whatever what the reasons is. For me, unless you do something very bad like crime or bait with someone??? LOL Or else you are not really hated by them, they just don't admit it. You should thank them also, since they also make you become more popular without noticed. ^^
Your response is pretty close to what I’m looking for here. It’s strange how so many people can hate a celebrity for no reason other than others hating on that celebrity. From there on, even the smallest little slip-up just confirms the haters’ beliefs.
And you raise an excellent point about haters and publicity. This is exactly what Danny Choo and John Chow were talking about – using the haters to your advantage.
Great stuff, dude.
Ahahaha. Domo domo.
1st time write this long on someone blog. And also, 1st time praised by famous blogger. ^^
*embrassing now*
Well, I think that those haters “hate” about someone or something, they just not having enough understanding towards those they hate for. Until they have more understandings on someone/something, then these “hate” feelings will disappear too. This what I believe for.
haha… well, when my readers post something good, I am more than happy to encourage them. 🙂
You’re totally right, and that is exactly what happened to me with celebrities such as Michael Jackson, Justin Bieber, and even Britney Spears. When I learned a little more about them, that hate disappeared.
Great for you man.
For now, I didn’t have any admiration to any celebrities. Really. I just admire more on manga and anime. ><
What I can say is, you can choose not to like, but can't choose to hate. Since hate is more complicated feelings out of many people can think.
Here's I get from my frenz at twitter today "I may not like you but I won't hate you." Pretty good, don't you think?? ^^
From an anime perspective, I remember when I painted a portrait of Aya Hirano (seiyuu for Haruhi), and the response I got from that was similar to Justin Bieber. Some people were saying that she’s ugly and has a pig nose, others just simply didn’t like her. I think she’s great. 😐
You’re so totally right – hate definitely is a more complicated feeling. Impressive thought!
I think your friend on twitter sounds tsundere. ^^ But seriously, your friend seems like a nice and understanding person.
heh….
He is my friend, a friend on the surface meaning, I didn’t know him much, either he also not knowing me much so….
He like photography, and he is the nice person, good at academic, that’s all I know about him ><
BTW…can I know which courses you attended during college / uni at here??? Or somewhere else??
Jealousy and hate goes hand in hand.
True. But it can’t as simple as that, can it?
> Even your grandmother has probably heard of Justin Bieber.
Actually I’ve never heard of him. ^^;
… you’re joking, right?
Ah… Justin Bieber, I always wondered what he was about after I saw a magazine cover story featuring him because he combed his fringe the other way. I was also genuinely amazed when my friend shows me one video of his on youtube with over half a billion a views. Now that’s popularity if you ask me.
Much like you I am outside his audience but at the very least from what I seen he seems like a nice guy. Much better than any western teen idol I seen in a while.
The bit about the haters always makes me wonder why? Do they do it because of low self esteem? boredom? enjoyment? Too much effort for a lost cause if you ask me.
Interesting to hear your point of view on it. Seems like you’re the kind of person that doesn’t just “go with the trends”. 🙂
I do wonder about the haters too… is it really a lost cause though? Wouldn’t the world be a better place if people weren’t so mindlessly judgmental? I’d have to say then that it might be worth the effort if it’s correctable.
Haha, ‘Reverse Zombie Consumerism’. 😛
Yes, a lot of the haters simply jumped on the bandwagon of hate without knowing what theirs reasons are. If they all did some research, I doubt the majority of those ‘haters’ would be able to come up with proper reasons to support their argument convincingly.
So you think that if these haters were to actually do their research before hating, that they wouldn’t be hating? Or that they’d still hate, but simply hate for the sake of hating?
I think this sort of goes hand-in-hand with the whole anti-bullying theme too. Think of it – if a group of kids bully another kid, then chances are, other kids will bully that kid too. They do so because their peers are doing it. Hence “Reverse Zombie Consumerism”.
I guess there are several possible outcomes if people actually did their research.
People could find out that they truly do hate the object/person, find out that they actually like the object/person or find out that they don’t really care/stand on neutral grounds.
But I believe it’s still up to the person to decide if they want to remain a member of the hate crowd. And like what you’ve said about bullying, popularity and peer pressure are key players in this.
Personally, I find it very annoying when people overuse the word ‘hate’. It’s a really strong word and because of its frequent use, some people think that it has the same value as ‘dislike’.
Hmm… you’re right. There is a possibility that one would hate after doing their research. At that point, it’s fine because the reason for hate/love becomes valid, and is no longer a mindless emotion of following the trends. On that note, there are A LOT of mindless people out there… it’s the whole reason why celebrities exist and are worshiped.
I wish more people would simply be aware of what’s going on around them, and make their own decisions rather than be a zombie…
Yes, “hate” really is a strong word. And sometimes that “dislike” really does turn into “hate” when one doesn’t control those emotions.
don’t laugh, but i’m one of the few who have heard the name, but know nothing of this guy. in fact, i only heard his name a couple of times, knows not his face, what he does, his job, who the heck he is… until today.
well, i do know he’s NOT a famous politician, but that was pretty much it… lol
living under a rock I am apparently.
hmmm… I don’t know what to say to that… I guess what I should rephrase is that even your grandma has at least heard of Justin Bieber. Seems that you have at least heard of him too. That aside, what do you think of the whole idea of reverse zombie consumerism?
To be perfectly honest, I avoided responding to that on purpose at first (as you caught on) because I feel ashamed to say I do occasionally fall into that zombie consumerism.
That however, is more in a political sense. Coming from Taiwan, I’ve grew up hearing plenty about Chinese Communism and some horrid stories of it. Ironically, here I am in US alone and it’s those same Chinese I grew up disliking that’s helping out a stranger like me. So that was a personal example of why I feel reverse zombie consumerism is a shallow trend for people to follow the crowd and those with the loudest voice aren’t the most correct ones.
Of course, I’ve sure many of us could point out times where we fall under it. Although I’m aware and tried to be more open-minded at times, I still am plagued by reverse zombie consumerism when it comes to my surroundings, namely the college life. I seen too many young people go out and party (which I have never done) and drink and many, and I mean MANY spoke weed and I just find young people my age aren’t the most responsible people around. Thus the main reason I ended up secluding myself (which I understand isn’t a healthy answer), but there’s just no one to really share similar interests with in this small college and morally I find it hard to be accepting of the behaviors.
That being rather long-winded, still I agree people should try to have a more wholesome understanding of situations before settling on conclusions. Whether it’s to be a hater or a fan, I feel there’s always the need to be informed and educated about what your subject, but you’ve already stated that in your blog so anymore would just be a repeat of what you’ve said. Long story short, I mostly agree with your viewpoint even if I find trouble acting upon it at times.
Hey, I love it when one of my readers goes no-holds-barred and tells it like it is. I enjoy knowing more about my readers. So I applaud you for opening up such personal feelings to me.
Yes, the political scene in Taiwan has always been fighting against China, always trying to declare independence. I think the relation to zombie consumerism or thoughtless hate totally applies here. I’m glad you’re able to see through that veil.
I’m also glad that you’re not giving in to peer pressure. Especially ones that result in negative impacts on your life. Though seclusion isn’t the answer either though. There are plenty of people that are engaged in positive impact activities. Find them. Join clubs or something. It’s important to get out there and experience life. 🙂
Thanks for reading my long post, and for commenting. 😉
By the way, since my take on reverse zombie consumerism is a slight tad towards the political side than the celebrity side, I thought to myself and compared it to segregation and racism.
In a sense they’re similar, but here’s my question. Do you believe racism and segregation spawns from personal emotions such as fear as jealousy and just following the crowd like reverse zombie consumerism or does it spawn from education?
Naturally one would immediately respond that education would be the cure to racism and segregation, because you’ll be able to understand one another. But once you think about it, isn’t educational what most racism began with anyway? You were educated by lords, families, media, strong influential powers in a propaganda against certain groups of people. People generally don’t just simply spawn hate all of a sudden, they’ve been educated on what to dislike and what to like. So are the reasons for racism and segregation because people were educated wrongly by higher ups or do people themselves feel dislike through jealousy and envy like reverse zombie consumerism?
A little side tracked, but on the train of thought on education. I know this is probably a common anime theme, “to understand one another”, which is entire theme of the Gundam 00 series and movie. So even if people DO understand one another’s perspective, would people really stop hating each other? Doesn’t argument come from two conflicting ideas? So even if two were to understand each other, it still doesn’t change the fact they’re not in agreement.
I know this has no direct connection to reverse zombie consumerism, but my train of thoughts lead me back to the question I had from watching Gundam 00 series and I never understood how just by understanding is world peace suppose to come about.
And lastly, off topic but, I see I somehow am on the “monthly top commentators”, but I’m pretty sure I post less than a lot of the people here. How does that work?
I had thought about racism and segregation when I wrote this post, but it was probably too heavy to talk about here, and a little less related to what I usually talk about. But thanks for raising that up!
I believe that racism spawns from education. This video is the reason why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgvbrL4xGys
It’s the same principle on why Taiwanese people are so against being part of China. They’ve been taught that way. It’s the same reason why Americans think they’re number 1. It’s the same reason why white supremacists exist. As the whole concept of my post suggests, and as for3v3rshin3 stated – you need a reason to hate. Hating someone is a lot more complex than not hating someone. Sometimes that reason could very well be because you were taught to hate.
The monthly commentators resets every month. If you comment more, then you’re on top. Some of my readers here don’t comment on every single post I make, so they don’t end up on top. The whole thing is automatic. Sometimes, there are only two people because the top commentator happens to not have a website. I’m guessing you post a lot more often than you think! ^^
After reading this it gives me a slightly better outlook about Beiber, though I still don’t have a positive or negitive view about him, except for his music and obsessed fanbase. You’re correct about Rverse/Zombie Comsumerism be strong in today’s society, but I believe that its a cultural issue (but its probably been around for longer then we realize). It seems to be raging a lot more often lately. Just look at what happened Miley Cyrus. o_0 Let’s hope it doesn’t end out like it has with other celebrities.
You’re right about Miley, and many other “victims” to the raging social reactions around media, and fans/haters alike. It’s absolutely insane the amount of pressure celebrities have to go through – their lives are pretty much watched over all the time, and with the double-edged sword of social media, they have to be extra careful not to completely destroy the image they’ve worked so hard to “manufacture”. That’s one thing that I find interesting about Bieber – he isn’t afraid to be a little honest.
It’s a little unfortunate too – I mean, you look at Adam Lambert, when he did that performance where he kisses another dancer, and his career is suddenly over. Whatever image people had of him was suddenly destroyed.
I think that people do forget that these celebrities are just regular people. You compare Bieber’s fanbase reactions to before he was famous. He was just a regular kid, trying to make some money singing on a street corner. Some of his now-fans might have even seen him singing there too, and didn’t even give him a dollar. It’s incredible what manufactured demand can do.
Much adverse reaction to Bieber is probably attributable to two things:
1) the ridiculous machismo many insecure males exhibit
2) jealousy
He seems a decent enough chap but I still don’t care much about him. He produces the generic fluff one would expect of him. I’m not necessarily averse to the film – if somebody I trusted told me it was worth seeing it, I would. It’s just that I prioritize pretty much everything over Justin Beiber (or Lady Gaga, or underwater basket weaving, etc). I could spend the time watching Cosmos if I wanted inspiration.
I do think a Beiber article might end up drawing more traffic to your site, though… you crafty devil.
🙂
I admit, I was jealous, especially when he’s only a kid and gets to hang out with hot celebrities. But yeah, I got over it. Jealousy is counterproductive. You could be right that it is all just pure mindless jealousy and insecurities at play, but then again, I’d like to think that there’s more to it than that. It’s a whole social psychology. It’s the same with playground bullying. You ask one kid why he’s bullying another kid, and his response could be “Because everyone else is doing it.”
Shin Megami Tensei Devil Survivor goes into this briefly, though angles it towards justice.
Bieber’s generic fluff, I don’t believe is really his “thing”. It’s a manufactured product. If you compare his current music to what he used to do, especially. To me, it feels like he was originally free, and highly skilled, but is now forced into a mould, and that his original self is still in there somewhere.
In a way, it’s like Josh Groban. He even said himself that he wants to try more mainstream pop stuff, but his skillset, and his “manufactured demand” forces him to remain doing what he’s doing. It takes a lot to change one’s image, and a lot of times, it ends in failure and his a high risk. This is why music labels are churning out the same rehashed stuff.
Not sure if the Bieber article will draw in more traffic. The video certainly didn’t make any difference. 😉
Perhaps manufactured demand for zombie consumerism/anti zombie consumerism is the ultimate evil of this. Whenever one individual’s capabilities is deemed marketable,
a lot of attention is suddenly gathered on him/her and brings out this otherwise-trivial situation.
Afterall, the over-zealotus devotion side of zombie consumerism do contribute to the witch-hunting intolerance of the said, “reverse zombie consumerism”.
The others have already covered the part of how much envy/jealously/hate results as due to the amount of attention one person receives compare to another unknown individual, of the same given capabilities.
But really, do we need that much of attention of either a lot of people or big-names? Or is there more happiness being able to do what we want to do without any manipulation by manufactured demand?
You’re totally correct. Justin Bieber, or any celebrity for that matter, is really just a focal point where zombie/anti zombie consumerism converges. In a way, it brings the worst of human behavior out. I like how you refer to it as “witch-hunting”.
You raise a very good question about happiness. I think that there are two answers to it – one is greed. If one is greedy, no matter how much attention is given to them, they only want more. The second answer is definitely that of being able to do what you want to do without manipulation by manufactured demand. It’s a more pure way of thinking about it – People don’t want to be rich, they want to have the freedom to do the things that money can give them. It sounds obvious, but as you can tell from celebrities and overworked CEOs that it’s not as obvious as it may appear.
Thanks for bringing some insightful comments to the discussion!
I use to dislike him too, after thinking a bit I didn’t really know what i disliked about him besides his music which was very repetitive. But if I compare his music to many other music today, it’s a bit better, but since he’s more popular, I think that’s where the flames and insults comes in. I asked some people what they thought about Justin, and they’d just respond with “ewwww” or “that girly guy?” That isn’t really an answer though, well, not the answer I was expecting.
After reading your post, it changed my way of thinking about celebrities and I will think of Justin in a new light, hopefully a good one. Thanks a lot for your awesome posts =D
You’ve pretty much confirmed my own feelings on the subject. It’s a very strange, yet common phenomenon that I still don’t fully understand. It doesn’t have anything to do with Bieber, since you could substitute any celebrity in there, and people would have similar responses (well, in context of course).
Hey thanks for reading my posts, Einen. It’s always good to hear from readers such as yourself. 😉
People say hes the next big thing..im sorry but please in terms of entertainment you simply cannot compare him to Michael Jackson, probably in terms of media coverage yes.
I dont hate him or like him, i simply dont care about him, hes simply a lucky boy living the american dream. i just hope he realises how dam lucky he is. to me there is nothing special about him, none of his songs ever ranked 1, i bet you he sold so much album because of ALL the young/teen girls. without them i doubt he would have sold that much.
Michael Jackson was far from perfect. His lifestyle, and the media that surrounded him resulted in his ultimate demise. Before his death, there were still LOTS of people hating him just as much, and then after his death, those same people turn around and worship him like a god? I admit that I was in that same boat – I didn’t like the idea that Michael Jackson was potentially a pedophile. And for a long time, I agreed with the haters. It wasn’t until I saw the documentary, and then the follow up documentary that I made my own decision that he was misunderstood. I liked his music, but never bought any until after his death. And then after hearing how his life was, I felt incredibly sorry for him, and the unfortunate world he lived in.
The thing is, I see the same thing happening to Justin Bieber. To MANY celebrities. Like I had said at the beginning of this post, this isn’t about Bieber at all. It’s about how we humans deal with phenomenon such as Bieber, such as Michael Jackson.
Media, fan-base, music, entertainment, it’s all parallel, whether your Justin Bieber, Michael Jackson, or Lady GaGa. It’s all in a difference of taste or preference. I predict that Justin Bieber will become as famous as Michael Jackson, especially when he gets older. I see the same patterns here.
I don’t know if I’d call it “luck”. He really does have talent. If I had the same amount of “luck” he has, would I be famous? I don’t think so. It takes much more than luck. It takes hard work, and skill too. What you’re saying about all the teen girls buying his songs, well those are his target market, and isn’t that the same with ANY musician? Would Sting have been popular if his fans didn’t support him? It’s all relative.
Absolutely amazing post. The drawing is amazing too!
I agree with everything here. I used to fall in the ‘hater’ group too but this post has totally enlightened me, so thank you.
For me, I think part of the reason is an aversion of the ‘idol culture’, where people worship and idolize these celebrities. But your post has reminded that this is not a reason to hate at all. Indeed, where is the love?
thanks very much tablecolor! I think all of us have a lot to learn, about society and ourselves. You know, you enlighten me just as much too, with your blog posts. We definitely have things to share. 🙂
Yes, I think the aversion of the idol culture does have a lot to do with it. I feel the same. After all, it seems what I really hate isn’t Justin Bieber, but his screaming psychotic fans. Those girls need to dial it down a little. ^^;
I don’t like Bieber’s music. I can’t say I enjoy Bieber’s fandom. But I don’t hate Bieber. (I don’t think I can honestly hate anymore, but that’s irrelevant.) Poor kid, it’s reached the point where it’s kind of…fun to make fun of him. Just because he’s Bieber. And because it’s like the thing to do.
But on a personal level, he means nothing to me, and I don’t care one way or the other about him. I’m glad things worked out for him, but I also can’t stand what the media and his fans have done to/for him. It’s an irritation just seeing his face sometimes. Because it’s everywhere.
I think it’s more /sad/ that among all of our popular artists today, one of the few with actual talent is a young boy who sounds like a girl. And everyone else is the product of wonderful Autotune.
There’s nothing wrong with the poor kid, just the way the people around him, the people who likes him, present him to the rest of us. And then you get the hate from…well, from the haters, and the combination of those people from both sides pushes against you and it’s irritating. So much so that it makes it hard to look at Bieber without feeling some kind of emotion towards him. And considering the forces that are acting…it’s not a very positive emotion.
Also, I think in some ways it’s a jealous sort of, “why is that stupid kid famous like this?” thing. Which I don’t know about you, but I have come to expect. Child celebrities: you have to feel bad for them.
You covered all the bases pretty well! I never thought of the whole repercussions of how it’s a vicious cycle, and how everything all links together. It’s like the boy’s life is now over. I am curious to see how he’ll handle it from now, if he’ll break like Michael Jackson. I certainly hope not. As a fellow Canadian, I wish him the best.
I wonder if the majority of the haters hate not him, but just the excessive amount of attention he gets, and the crazy fans. Dear god the crazy fans. Apparently, he can’t stand it either. In an interview he said he tries to wear ear plugs at all times. O_o;
You’re right, it’s kind of sad to see the music industry reduced to such low quality. The way you state it really hits home. Which may explain why that Spalding girl won the grammy’s. They may be trying to redeem their credibility, of course, at the cost of shutting out the very force that drives the industry.
Thanks for commenting, my friend.
His career is certainly over in the sense that it is never going to move past the fans he currently have. He’s never going to win over the haters or the people who have already been jaded by his fandom, and he’s only likely to disappoint his fans when his voice changes, haha.
I wonder what he’ll be doing a few years from now.
And yeah I heard that about him too. I feel bad for the poor kid. He doesn’t even want what he’s got. :T
You’re welcome, of course.
I’m not so sure if his career will end after his voice changes. I think that it would be very much that he’ll continue to target the same market – after all, his target market is aging too, and so their tastes changes as well. Michael Jackson started with ABC. If he didn’t evolve, his career would have ended. Heck, Enrique Iglasias is a perfect example – his music was stale, and he fell off the charts. Now he’s changed his style and he’s back on the charts.
At the rate things are going, I don’t see celebrities having an easier life down the road. It’s such a self-destructive path. There are great perks that we’re all jealous of, but the price they pay is pretty high…
I guess this is too. And Justin Timberlake? 8D But at the same time…I just don’t know. I guess we’ll have to see if he surprises us, eh?
I don’t think celebrities have a very easy life, sometimes. I am never jealous of them, heh, but there are pros and cons, I guess. And it differs for them all.
I agree with everything that was just said here ^^;
I can’t say I hate his music. I’ve never actually heard it ^^; But if you said “check out the Beiber song!” I’d make fun of it.
“I hate, I HAAATE! It’s all I’m programmed to do, I hate.”
I felt the same way about Deathnote, Michael Jackson and anything Akira Toriyama drew. So, I missed out on a (what I hear is) great anime and Chrono Trigger. It’s just hate for nooooo reason.
I wasn’t consciously aware that I had no real reason to hate it until you wrote this post.
So I’mma just sit back and re-evaluate myself for a while ^^;
It makes me happy to hear that my post has the impact of Jedi mind tricks. 🙂
Don’t worry though, there are a lot of people that hate unconsciously, as demonstrated through what celebrities like Justin Bieber go through.
“Awareness is the beginning of change.” With the anti-bullying campaigns going on, and more and more people jumping into yoga and meditation, I hope the world will gradually become more aware. It’ll be for the greater good of humanity and the planet, I believe.
Don’t know much of anything about Justin Bieber save for the fact he’s apparently popular and I did see the water bottle throw video on youtube once. ^^;;
Nice post that raises a lot of valid points. Why is there so much hate and is that hate so much more flammable and widespread the past decade thanks to the Internet’s anonymity?
Why are so many people eager herds of mindless sheep fawning over or hating something without stopping to logically think about what they’re doing? Who shall say.
But one of the best steps to take is one you took. Instead of hating and trying to have the world conform to you, you changed the one thing everyone can change, yourself and your own thoughts.
Internet anonymity probably does have a lot to do with it. And with it, all of a sudden, it becomes part of daily life so much so that we do take these behaviors off the internet and into real life – it kind of explains the water bottle to the head, and the increase in bullying in schools… worse still is when that bullying gets brought online too, which has lead to a few headline news suicides. I can’t even imagine what teens like those go through…
It’s weird when I see half of this young generation so mindless, and another half so completely thoughtful and responsible. I really wonder where the world will end up going.
I like your last thought. It reminds me of the song by Michael Jackson “Man In The Mirror” which coincidentally is Justin Bieber’s all time favorite song.
I’ve never been even the slightest bit interested in Bieber, but after reading this I have finally formed an actual opinion rather than blindly “hating” just because of his fame. I’m not really connected with a lot of the mainstream stuff but I see the mass zombie consumerism everywhere I go. I think part of the blind hatred I’ve had for celebrities at times is just a byproduct of feeling like I’m being coerced to like things just because others do. This was a good read and now I can at least save myself the embarrassment of being in the blind Bieber haters section of the population. I really didn’t find the bottle or exploding juice funny at all, and seeing the positive that comes out of what he’s doing puts a smile on my face. I think of my son and the person I hope he can grow up to become. This reverse zombie consumerism you speak of really is a powerful phenomenon. For some reason I’m now thinking of the popularity of memes and such, though they’re different subject matter. Also, I must say you did a great job of drawing Justin Bieber ^^
Being coerced… that’s something I haven’t thought about. I can see where one would get emotionally defensive or find some scapegoat when something as intangible as an invisible hand is trying to force you in a certain direction “If this celebrity didn’t exist, I wouldn’t feel like I’m being forced to like him!”
That exploding juice thing was rather weird – particularly the fangirl’s reaction. She burst out in laughter. Well, kids are hard to figure out I guess. 😛
I’m contemplating whether or not to watch Never Say Never. The concept of it being an inspirational film makes me want to see it, but the still somewhat mindless hate (especially for the screaming fans) has me balking. Maybe I’ll rent it. 😐
Good point on the meme thing. Sometimes I see the silliest things become memes, and frankly, it makes no sense. Everyone starts doing it because everyone else is doing it. >_>
Thanks for the complement. I’m glad you enjoyed the drawing. Cheers!
Nice post, you put good thoughts into it.
With any success, there are haters. Whether it be Michael Jackson-like status, or a local band that has made it big in America, (Nickelback, Avril Lavigne,etc), or even an artist you admire who makes it big. Are they a Sell-Out? Bieber is not a new phenomena.
Yet, no press, is bad press, in that, even your so-called haters have propelled this ‘humble child performer’ to the international entertainment arena. So much in fact that he’s been distilled down to a mere satirical trending topic(or several topics) on twitter. What? Bieber is a singer? With all the hoopla, and jokes surrounding this this person, the majority of people wouldn’t know who Bieber is! A singer that has been simplified into a simple word, that not even his ‘talent’ could have achieved. With all the attention coming from adults, and not tween girls.
The mob mentality online is the biggest marketing tool ever. Fans or haters, are tools in the manufacturing of a BRAND, and the audience perception. This post in itself is a product of your observation of celebrity + insults = the world is a terrible place.
Have you researched how the insults began, and how they were fueled? I’m willing to bet the marketing people capitalized on this. I personally had no idea who or what a Bieber was, when I saw his name on twitter. Then I heard rapper Lucadris appeared on one of his songs, and then I learned he was a Canadian tween pop singer. I heard some of his music, and all I could think was, the pop singers that have preceded him. The same thing for a new generation. Not only in the sound of the music, but in the very performer. Michael Jackson’s death, means the corporate/record labels/branding, and sponsors need a new child idol to milk.
You saw the Best Buy Bieber/Ozzy ad right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k52bxMjQnso
The kid appears in the commercial, and at the very end, a guy says he ‘looks like a girl.’ Marketing the brand, through using the very thing that made him famous, insults!
We’ve had a similar conversation about this in the past, when you were defending Timberlake, as extremely talented, and yet as soon as Bieber or Timberlake stepped out of child singers, into major performers, everything they do is manufactured, and determined by decision by committee.
You say this post isn’t about Bieber, oh but it is (and many more issues). You leave your deep thought for the end, and it’s not that deep actually. You’re using Bieber as your vehicle for the subject of mob bandwagon hate, and ignorant celebrity insults, in contrast to the mob bandwagon anti-hate. I’m gonna stay away from your terms ‘zombie consumerism,’ and ‘reverse zombie consumerisrm,’ because those thoughts are best explained better in actual anthropological studies.
If anything you’re consenting to the image manufactured by corporate forces, the performer in front of you is what you expect him to be, because they’re telling you it is. Perfect timing for the release of the movie too. Great he’s doing so many positive, inspiring things. But what happens when this kid gets older?
Michael Jackson, child performer extraordinaire had major issues about his childhood fame, he mentioned in numerous interviews. Britney Spears went nuts from all the fame. So the question is, is taking a performer to celebrity status with all the praise from fans, and hate from critics, really that good for a kid his age?
WATCH
STARSUCKERS documentary: The illusion of celebrity endorsed charity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT7JC9U6lVA
READ
Manufacturing Celebrity
http://www.bewilderingstories.com/issue335/celebrity1.html
Hey thanks for commenting. An epic comment indeed, as you had tweeted to me. You make some good points too.
I’d have to disagree that there are people who don’t at least know who Bieber is. He isn’t a brand-name yet; the oversimplification down to something like Kleenex. By far the attention still comes mostly from the tweens. The adults are merely cashing in on his fame.
“Use your haters to your advantage.” is what I’ve learned, and certainly the recording industry and Bieber’s PR agents have learned as well. It’s sad that Mariah Carey and Brittney Spears let that get to them though. You’re right in stating that my post is a product of this. There wouldn’t be a post otherwise, but therein lies my point as well.
Yeah, saw the Best Buy Bieber/Ozzy ad. I loved it. Especially the part where Ozzy was standing awkwardly in the background. BTW, that guy who makes the “looks like a girl” comment is Bieber himself, it seems.
The manufacturing of these celebrities is pretty much a none-discussion now, since it’s an obvious fact. It’s terrible seeing these talented people get moulded into the same crap we see all the time.
I do have to defend myself on your remark about the post being about Bieber, and the thought being not-so-deep. The post still isn’t about Bieber. Bieber is used as an example here. I could have used any other celebrity, yes. So you’re right in the regards that I’m jumping on the bandwagon. The timing is critical here as well, since he’s the most talked about, my readers have some feelings about him here and there, so it’s easier to relate. If they were harboring any hate, they can immediately see that it’s blind hate because of the counterpoints I’ve raised.
As far as the thought being not-so-deep, it is deliberate. Perhaps you’re reading into this a bit too much and you’re on a different level, but the intent here was simply to get people thinking and discussing. I’ve learned from past posts that if I bring things too deep, there’s no room for discussion or interpretation, which is what I encourage on my blog. Why else would there be this many comments on a given subject matter?
I believe that corporate forces can only influence a person so far, and certain celebrities are influenced greater than others. I think this is mainly due to fear of hate. They have no choice but to trust in these corporate agents to tell them the right thing to do. For Bieber, he seems a tad bit more immune. Mainly due to him being young, he has the confidence and recklessness attitude that “everything will be okay”. He’s also able to get away with more because “he’s just a kid”. So what I see coming from him is either genuine, or an incredibly good act. I’d like to believe the former, because manufactured or not, he has been a good influence and inspiration to a lot of youths. Like I had said, perhaps the change I see with the Anti-Bullying campaign isn’t a product of Bieber, but Bieber is a product of the youths of today – it doesn’t matter – it’s almost like Bieber is a channel or focal point for all this.
The concept of “illusion of celebrity endorsed charity” is pretty obvious. Though Bieber stated too that he doesn’t like the idea and believes flaunting charity accomplishments is fake. I don’t know if he was told to say that, but again, I’d like to believe in the former.
Thanks for the epic comment. It’s definitely brought out a different side of me. 🙂
I really like these kinds of posts where there’s a topic that promotes discussion. It’s really interesting to read what people’s thoughts are on the subject.
I must admit I don’t know much about J Biebs other than quips on the internet about him. Though I did watch a recent episode of Conan with him as one of the guests show. He wasn’t the most articulate guest or the most interesting, but he gave me a really genuine vibe.
I think that might be the key to the success of Bieber. Very similar to Lady Gaga, he has chosen a target audience, cater to what is popular at the moment for that audience, and win their hearts by doing so. I’m not a fan of it, but the strategy does work and it works very very well.
I also must admit I’m not well versed in music either. I don’t know what’s hip or cool nowadays since I don’t really follow it that much. I just listen to music that I think sounds good or catchy to me. I agree with some of the comments though in how most of the pop music I hear nowadays are very similar and manufactured sounding, Biebs is no exception. His music is a lot of people’s thing, it just isn’t mine.
Now on the topic of haters, it takes a lot of effort to truly hate something. Especially how much knowledge it takes to back up what you hate. Though if you think about it, if you do all that research to hate it, it takes a lot of care for the subject to do that. Unfortunately today’s people are lazy and really all the hate is empty hate. Spread by word of mouth on why things suck without any real understanding of the subject.
A popular trend I also find nowadays is that it’s easy to “hate” popular things for the sake of being non-mainstream. Not following what’s popular is the new cool. One example of this is how Muse got mainstream because of Twilight and there was a big uproar with oldschool Muse fans that keep on saying, “I liked Muse before Twilight, these Twilight fans aren’t real Muse fans”. People don’t seem to like sharing. Then again, Twilight is a beast of it’s own… not going there…
Haters will always exist, no matter what the subject is there will always be haters. Even if it’s the most unquestionablly amazing thing in existance in the known universe, there will be that one sole person that would say “Meh”. (IMO, if there was one thing I do truly hate, it would be the word, “Meh”).
There are a lot of retorts to the hater comments which basically goes like, “If you don’t like it, why are you commenting on it?”. We all know negative attention is still attention. Most haters are attention seekers, that’s why they hate, that’s why they comment in the first place. They want the attention and love it when people get so riled up by reading comments that are meant to grind the fan’s gears. Either that, or people really love taking the time to voice their opinions because everyone must know what they think about whatever they commented on.
Though on the opposite side of the coin, some fans are almost worse than haters in the same way. Some of the fans go absolutely crazy for the Biebs. Like the kid that “waged war” against 4chan, threatening 4chan to stop the Bieber hating. Like all things that go against 4chan, it didn’t end well…
Bottom line is people should love what they love and hate what they hate, just don’t let other’s people’s hate get to them. Haters gonna hate and are just the one’s left out and not enjoying themselves. I’ve been rambling, must stop.
Sorry, had to edit your post for white-spacing. Sorry that your post got eaten up so many times too!
Yeah, I got the same vibe from Bieber too. He talks… like a kid, and is quite honest and genuine. That or he’s a freakin’ good actor (which he isn’t. see CSI episode).
You’re probably right about selecting target markets. I think ultimately, that’s what any business tries to do in order to succeed. There’s no point in pursuing people that aren’t interested in your product. Though I don’t think that it’s Bieber’s choosing – it’s definitely the corporations that are putting him in a certain direction.
I too agree that the music industry has gone in the direction of rehashing (a long time ago). I brought this up too in my Zombie Consumerism post – we keep buying the same stuff so that tells the corporations to make more. Why else would there be so many sequels in video games, or game designs based on other games?
Yup, mindless hate = reverse zombie consumerism. I think you’re right that people are too lazy to put in the effort to really hate someone or something. You raise a good point about “trying to be different” as well. People take pride for hating on something that is popular, but then when everyone starts doing it, the tides change again. Epic battle. 😛
“If you don’t like it, why are you commenting on it?”
That is SO TRUE! I’ve noticed that myself when I was perusing Bieber videos for this post. It’s almost as if these people are deliberately searching for Justin Bieber just to say nasty things about him. I couldn’t figure out why, and what you’re saying makes perfect sense – attention seeking. It seems so… pathetic though, eh?
I agree – the fans are insane too. I think that would be considered a valid hate ^^
So you don’t think that this world can shift towards a no-hate society? I think that perhaps it can shift to an “educated hate” society at least, if everyone were to just be more aware of their emotions and reasons, which I would be okay with.
Thanks for the awesome comment, dude.
I don’t want to be so negative about humanity, but I think people nowadays in general are way too lazy to really take the time to understand the subject before hating it. Never mind in the future.
I do agree with your point of at least being more aware of their emotions and reasons. On the other hand, I think haters are a group where they don’t want to discuss why they hate in the first place since it’s just empty hate. Discussing anything with them would be pointless as they would just spew out the same 2 – 3 reasons every other hater says.
Hmmm, to be honest, I’ve not seen Justin even mentioned on TV but maybe once. Then again I don’t watch much TV anyways :). I think I first heard about him maybe half a year ago, but only once. Now you find him everywhere though haha.
Hate. I think you could think of hate as love multiplied by ‘-1’ if you get my drift ;). Love and hate are basically the same feeling, only on the opposite extremes. Funny thing is though that many people don’t have to have any reason what-so-ever to hate. This, of course, was pointed out in your post. One doesn’t even have to first ‘choose’ to hate anyone or anything, they can just hold it without understanding it.
I don’t ‘hate’ him, I just don’t care for him. Or maybe it’s just the whole fandom bit, or ‘idol’ bit that I don’t really care for. I suppose this could also be one reason for my regard of him–I first heard about him from the fanbase. One’s first impression of a person can greatly determine your perspective of them.
The other thing is that if a person is marketed, it also means that their image can also be marketed. What I mean is that the truth of what a person is like if you met them could be vastly different from what you find on the internet or Tv. Not to say that I’ve read researched him or anything though.
In fact, that I think could be touched on. A person online could be completely different then they are in person. For instance, I have no problems relaying my thoughts outspokenly or communicating online, but in person I’m usually a very silent, shy individual. It’s kind of funny since most of my posts (on Youtube or even on blogs like here) end up being longer than I might actually speak in person. In fact, sometimes more than what I might say in an entire ‘day’ haha. My point? One’s Personality or attitudes typically differs from situation to situation.
How he could be in person (face to face) could be different from how he appears in the media. I won’t judge a person without knowing them personably though–hell, I’m the type that still won’t judge a person once I know them. Maybe that’s why I’m typically called a ‘nice guy’ when I’m around people, who knows.
To end this long post before I lose track of all I’m saying in this small comment box ( 😉 ), Some people choose to hate for fame, for fortune, for success, for fandom or sometimes blindly for no reason at all.
When I first saw your work on Youtube, I was greatly impressed but I’m sure you’ve had at least a few people who have been jealous of your skill–and therefore were negative towards you. I’m sure that they were holding such feelings I’ve mentioned and for much the same reasons too.
Was I at one time jealous of your skills with the pen? To be honest (and much to my shame) I was in some ways. But, I knew that I shouldn’t hold such feelings because skill to such measure can only come from intense practice and dedication. I knew that jealousy of skill or fame can only be from one’s own fear of commitment or lack of will to commit.
This is why I call you friend :). It’s because I have come to respect you as both artist and person–even without meeting you in person. Will we ever meet offline? I don’t know. Although I surely would jump to the chance if it ever came about :).
I could probably go on for several hours, but I think I’ll call it quits while I’m ahead haha!
Take care buddy! I’ve got some boxes I need to fill ;).
-Jason
I think that one doesn’t need a reason to mindlessly hate, just the same with mindlessly loving. That’s zombie consumerism right there. But to truly hate someone or even love someone, you have to understand that person first. And to do that, requires research, and acceptance for who they are and what they represent first before you can define what you like or dislike about someone.
I’ve found that people who don’t care for him either hate him, or are neutral. Both of which are products of simply not putting in the effort to understand him, which is fine if you’re neutral about it since you’re not doing anything wrong either way. It’s when it turns into destructive hate is where the problems arise.
In regards to how he may be different in person than on TV, that’s the manufactured part that the record labels try to enforce, and give people the impression that the celebrity is perfect. We see this all the time. The interesting thing about Bieber is that he doesn’t seem manufactured when you see him talking during interviews.
Jealousy is definitely blind emotion, I’d say. Everyone is generally nice people, and generally deserve what they’ve earned, be it skill, fame or fortune. Jealousy appears when you don’t take the effort to understand that, and only see what’s on the surface. Like you said, you felt jealous at first, until you took the time to understand, which lead to appreciation.
You’re right, I have been on the receiving end of haters before too. It’s a very strange feeling. It happened when my Blazblue cover was released. But I was able to get over it, fortunately. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be blogging or drawing anymore. ^^
I always wondered why you ended your messages with “my friend” and “buddy”. I thought it was mostly just your thing, but what you’ve said today really makes me understand and appreciate it more. Thanks. 😀
Cheers, my friend. 😉
Agreed mostly. You see this whenever something becomes widely popular. It becomes cool to hate on it, sort of a counter-culture type of thing. Not being mainstream is often seen as hip. Perhaps in an attempt to not seem like they’re being manipulated by mass consumerism (being a zombie), many haters have gone toward the other end of the spectrum. Ironically, they’re still not basing their opinions on anything substantial.
While I’m not a fan of Bieber – I have no idea what he’s about and I didn’t like Baby – I am a fan of Lady Gaga, and you see very similar reactions from a lot of people.
Heck, even K-On! gets a lot of hate just for being the face of moe, and I suspect many who speak vehemently ill of it have not seen the series.
Forgot to mention, incredible artwork!
Thanks, Yi! 😉
2DT mentioned that as well on my twitter. “Look at me! I’m not following your trends of being mindless zombies!” when indeed they are still being mindless zombies, just a different kind.
I like Lady Gaga too. And yes, the parallels are definitely there, mainly because everyone reacts the same to pretty much any celebrity. And you’re right about the parallel with K-On! too! I never thought about that one! I suppose I could have taken the spin on that instead of Justin Bieber, even though the result is pretty much the same.
Justin Bieber had become a worldwide phenomenon that most of us living in today’s world will most probably had came across his name, his songs, his photo, his articles & whatever the mass media had covered, it’s just unavoidable unless the person live under a rock without internet.
How I became aware of Justin Bieber & started to take interest in doing some research about him, was sadly due to all the negativity I’d notice in my surrounding, people everywhere were just bashing their nonconstructive criticism, it’s like following a mindless trend (bandwagon) of hate.
The reason that he became a celebrity is not merely by luck, he indeed have the talents, and all the preparations he had done (street performances) was the key for him to secure the opportunity when it’s given.
Nevertheless, such negative behavior all comes down to being jealous. Afterall, “Haters Gonna Hate”. All these negativity are actually contributed in generating more awareness to the said person, which was what the “Manufacturer” intended in a way, by taking full advantage of the free publicity.
I’ll take this opportunity to watch Justin Bieber’s “Never Say Never” biopic & see how’s his journey started & how he inspires other people.
Thanks for seeking my opinion 😉
P/S: Love your arts as always.
So it seems that you too have noticed the negative trends of people being zombies… it seems that this sort of thing isn’t limited by cultural barriers, and is a global phenomenon. Though I suppose that’s not really surprising, since hate is a fairly universal emotion… but then again, hate isn’t really an emotion, it’s a product of anger + reason. So when “hater’s gonna hate”, I still find it a generalization, since I believe this sort of thing is correctable through proper awareness and education – just like the concept or racism is something that is learned, and not natural.
If you do end up watching Never Say Never, do let me know what you think of it.
Thanks for posting, my friend.
Interesting Topic Here,I thought this will end into another Beiber hater post hahha,seems all comments above me already mention everything,I only have principles why I should hate someone that don’t do anything wrong to me unless I have good reason as for hate because of jealousy of fame and money, I only feel jealous with people skill and talent and I don’t see those in him 😯 (ps : I only listen one of his song and that’s it)
and I love your zombie consumerism post, but it reminds me a lot with some friends that let’s say turn into “Slave” and disappear 🙁
Hello Aya!
I don’t agree that jealousy of fame and money is a good reason to hate someone. Anyone can become successful, but in it plays luck, and most importantly, hard work. Successful people are successful for a reason, so they usually deserve it. It’s only if they are unscrupulous that it becomes a reason for hating.
“Slave” and disappear… are you talking about World of Warcraft? If so, that’s more of an addiction, so it’s a little different. But still, yes, that can be a sad thing, losing friends because of their thoughtlessness. “Awareness is the beginning of change.” If you’re able to make them understand what it is that they are doing, and how it is hurting the people around them, then they will change their ways.
Thanks for posting, and welcome to the blog. 🙂
Thanks for the greeting, I also don’t agree with that but that’s what I see why people feel jealous 😯 I thinks most male hate beiber now as he lure Girls,world is changing and Girls like “girly”-boy ?
as Slave in my perception are hype/trend followers in forums or blogging “world”(mostly toys&Figures) community they just follow the demand and start to collect what became popular 😯 ,I just wonder how many of my “online-buddies” disappear or sell all his/her collections then disappear >_< too bad most of them are proudly otakus,I am not otaku myself maybe that's why I can't understand what they are actually thinking but at least I am glad they got their mind back and aware what they are doing.
oic. I apologize for misunderstanding your comment.
I think that the attraction to girly-boys have been trending for the last decade or so, particularly in advertisements such as Guess, Calvin Klein, etc. (again, mindless consumerism takes hold)
I have seen a few collectors disappear too. It’s kind of sad, really. But as a collector myself, I can see why. One of them got sick and tired of the zombie consumerism among his peers, and himself. Another, unfortunately, had to do so because higher priorities took place in her life that pretty much forced her out of her hobby. 🙁
But you’re right, I’d like to think that those people did get their mind back and are enjoying their lives more than before. I’m aiming to obtain a balance so that I’m happy with my collection, and my life. Though that has proven rather difficult. ^^;
After reading quickly through your post and what people have commented so far (I must admit I am not a good reader when it comes to a lot of text, which ends up with me not really willing to think and write so much), I have been asking myself how I should leave my opinion on it, and how far should the context be spread out to. It’s another brain-tearing discussion, and one that should be brought on a table and talk in person really IMHO, just like some of your previous posts in the past.
I don’t really know much about Justin Bieber and his “phenomenon”, and even after reading your post I don’t think I can really comment much about it (other than that his voice did startle me when I first heard it), other than that the “haters” and those who make the fun out of him are what made me heard of his name in the first place. So the way that I got to know his existence via people not admiring or liking him, but the other way round, is possibly what this “reverse zombie consumerism” you are referring to.
Given that he has one of the most watched videos on YouTube and that he has a huge fanbase, he can’t be just all about bad stuff as I often hear, or else the huge fanbase and the statistics would make me very baffled. The good stuff has to come from somewhere, though it is probably heavily overlooked. That is probably not what I am looking for – what people see him seem to be quite polarised. This is what Yi told me when I’ve commented on her K-On! post that despite I still haven’t watched either seasons (I do mean it) I nearly always hear things in the extreme, “great things are often polarised”.
The hating over such small things that probably don’t really matter to them in life (i.e. not some armed forces slaughtered your family, or what seem to be your best friend has deceived you and made you lose a lot of things etc). People hating Justin Bieber, Nendoroids, BRS, Haruhi, “moe” (??, not to be confused with ?? of same pronounciation), and “otakus” too etc.
It also seems like that hating something can be the “cool thing to do”, which can be imagined in the way how people gang up to bully someone who stands out in a school class. “Everyone’s making the fun of that person, so it’s not wrong to do so”. And as you said – in a lot of the cases they won’t really know what’s the story behind the subject they’re hating, or worse won’t even take the effort to know or understand it before doing so.
However, fandom is one important thing to mention – especially those who pratonise a lot about what they like and condesecend on other stuff or competitors. I do admit that sometimes when one brags a lot something s/he really likes (with or without reasons, but worse for the latter), it does turn me off and make me want to seek the other side. It also reminds me of when I blogged about my figma BRS (which I admit I really like), someone commented that he’s sick of seeing all the hype and people jumping into bandwagons like sheep following shepherd, not thinking for themselves. The hate does put a dark cloud over the atmosphere, but it’s also understandable in a way of how he thinks of things going on nowadays.
Well this surely is one of the many aspects of the dark side of the society we are in. It’s interesting to see you having a footnote at the end saying that there’s still hope in reversing this. thenewhorde made a comment about how Gundam 00 is about “achieving piece via understanding”, of which despite being a very optimistic way of seeing and living through hardship, it is also one that is strongly rejected by many viewers (saying how it is ridiculously childish, shallow, and unrealistic). Negative influence does always seem to have a bigger impact than the positive counterpart, hence why we are seem to always be bombarded with bad news than good news on news programs/websites. Things can sound pretty grim, and realism is harsh.
Well, there is something call hope to those who believe in it. Hold onto that, live on, and there’s something we can do about the world that seem to get darker and darker as we know more about it.
P.S. I am sure that this is probably not going to end just here, but I’m getting exhausted. Since you’ve literally handpicked me among a few others for opinion on this I can’t really just read on silently (though I probably would comment anyway despite my unwillingness to post long comments). Well, we would leave it at that, or else I would find out that I’ve used up most of my night thinking and typing this out.
Wow! Quite the post there! 😀
It seems that Bieber being “discovered” would have to be no accident, with the huge number of views he got. It’s not the first time someone got famous from youtube. Bare Naked Ladies did too, I believe. Or at least something similar to it. And raw talent wouldn’t spread if it wasn’t good. That’s to say that it’s the audience that chose Bieber, and not the other way around.
From a business perspective, you don’t create demand for a product. That takes too much energy. You create a product to meet demand. The demand for Bieber was already there – it’s just a matter of finding someone to fill that spot.
And like any product, there will be people who are against it, for whatever reason, valid or not. So, as such, Bieber has haters. Not saying Bieber is a product, of course, but there are parallels.
You’re right about people trying to be different, and hating just to be different and cool. 2DT raised a good point on my twitter about this – “You’re just as much a zombie as everyone else if you mindlessly hate.” So the same goes with Nendoroids, BRS, Haruhi and moe as you’ve mentioned. All totally valid, and all fall into a “product” category as well.
You make a good point about fandom being sometimes more “destructive” to the celebrity as well. People associate it with the celebrity himself “I hate screaming bieber fans, therefore I hate Bieber. If it wasn’t for Bieber, there wouldn’t be screaming beiber fans.”
I have to admit, by the time BRS arrived at my door, and I was talking photos of her, I too felt sick. It was the same feeling I got when I bought Ignis The White. I wrote an article about that on figure.fm which danny hijacked. Not sure if you have read it before. (Look up “crap figures radiantdreamer” on google).
Albert raised a good point about how this blog post is in and of itself, “jumping on the bandwagon”. I could have used any celebrity as an example, but I chose Bieber because he’s one of the most trended topics nowadays.
They say that “bad rumors will have traveled four times around the world before the good rumors have even put on its shoes.” There’s something about the human psyche where we all secretly wish ill on others for whatever purpose, or want to be boastful, and therefore share bad news because it’s “shocking” and has value. Bad news travels because we put greater value on it than good news. It’s unfortunate. That’s why I think that everyone has evil inside, and that if given the chance to become evil, corruption prevails. That’s why I wrote that “8-Super Powers You Wish You Had” blog post. I think I’ll have to refine that post someday too. ^^
I’m sorry it took me so long to reply to your incredible comment because I have been so busy lately. But I’m very happy that you took the time to write. 🙂
My friends actually call Justin Bieber “gay”, just because he has a voice like a girl’s. ._. I mean, what does being gay have to do with having a high voice.
They’re all just calling him gay and all just because everyone else does.. :/ Apparently, in my school, the “cool” people all hate Justin Bieber for god knows what reason. -_-
By the way, awesome drawing of him you have there. 😀
I feel so old now, you mean this guy is all the rage with teenagers and the only thing I know about him is that he’s Canadian? So out of touch…
This article totally reminds me of the phrase “haters gonna hate”, but like you said, there’s also the reverse of haters. I like to believe that people are inherently good and I also look forward to seeing what the next generation will bring.
What I do like about him is he is constantly mentioning and promoting Canada whenever he gets the opportunity. “What food do I miss most? Tim Hortons.” “Hi, this is Justin Bieber, from Canada.” “I don’t know the US Anthem, because I’m Canadian. Oh Canadaaaa…” it’s great. Other Canadian celebrities seem to try and avoid the fact that they’re Canadian.
1. Regardless of what you said above, your post is about Bieber, and how you love him. It’s just trying to show you’re not a mindless lover of him. But it’s more about Bieber than it is about surrounding issues.
2. Publicity helps. Did you know if most people thought a product was 2-4 (out of 5), then it won’t sell much, and products that most people think are 1/5 do? Well, so long it’s a split…
If you think something is ok, you’ll say it’s ok when asked, but it won’t come up when someone asks for “Best/Most notable”, nor will you be moved to tell people to stay away from it: You’ll see people mention or ask about it on Twitter and won’t pitch in with your opinion, cause you don’t feel strongly about it.
3. And this leads to an interesting idea. We’re trained to say things are “Awesome” or “lame”. “Eh” and “So-so” are vanishing words. People begin to describe even things that get 3.5 as Awesome (some as lame), and anything that’s 2.9 is not average, but suxx0r!
This also works on the mind. We begin seeing things not as “sucks, below average, average, neat, great” but as “lame/awesome-sauce”. This of course serves the needs of consumerism.
4. Hating is easy, especially if you consider point #3. Who can say what are legitimate grounds for hating? And many people don’t hate Bieber, but what he symbolizes (crazy fan-girls, for one). But like points #2-3 point out, once you hate him for X, you begin hating him, all of him. The reverse is true for fan(atics, the root of the word).
And really, hating is easy, especially when “hate” = “Lame” = “Not great.” And we don’t have to think he’s great.
5. People who hate, even for a tiny uninformed reason, and then go into discussions to say they hate something, are not trolls. They even aid consumerism. See point #2. Especially, well, one way to get haters and fans is through people discussing and disagreeing – when people disagree, rather than reach closer opinions, people usually grow to hold more extreme opinions. So if I sort of like Bieber and you sort of hate Bieber, talking about it enough will make me a fan and you a hater, and both of us will drive discussions, googling, and sales.
6. Trolls are those who only enter the discussion to create flame-wars/anger, not those who truly submit their own anger.
1. No, I don’t love Justin Bieber, so I do have to defend myself on this judgment of yours. I could have chose *any* celebrity with the same resulting post. I chose Bieber simply because he’s a hot topic right now, and accessing info on him was incredibly easy. Like I said “this post isn’t about Justin Bieber.” and I stand by that statement. The videos and info I’ve gathered that show him in positive light isn’t to say “Oh Bieber is an awesome kid!” but more to say “there’s more to it than most people know.”
2. I’m not sure I fully comprehend what you mean here. I understand the part about “an average product” not being pushed either for or against. So are you saying that if I believe a product is 1/5, I will put more effort into telling people not to buy it, therefore creating more buzz for it and inevitably increasing its sales? Yeah, I can see that happening. And it’s a very interesting food for thought!
3. So you’re saying that we see things in absolutes in our current society? I can kind of see that, because we are mostly mindless zombies who are too lazy to do actual research into forming a proper educated opinion, there isn’t really an in-between.
4. I agree with this point. In fact, I’ve experienced it a couple of days ago. Someone commented on my Bieber painting video on youtube “I hate Bieber, so I’m going to unsubscribe from you.” That confirmed my theories of this post indeed, and it seems is further reinforced by your point.
5. So you’re defining trolls as people simply wanting to stir up shit as opposed to haters, who have emotional reasons (however mindless it may be) to bring those emotions out. I agree with that. But when it comes to the internet, it’s kind of hard to tell the difference between a hater and a troll sometimes. Irregardless, the ending result is the same, as you’ve said – more discussions, more googling, and more sales.
6. point 5.
Thanks very much for posting, Guy! I always appreciate your points of view in discussions such as these. 🙂
Welcome 🙂
Both marketing researches and a recent post on OkCupid support point #2. There are a LOT of 3s and 4s, so it’s less likely you’ll pimp them. You’ll be more outspoken on 5s.
and 1s to warn people away. 2s are ok, somewhat, not a complete waste of time.
But, also think of #5 and how it relates to this. Researches in Social Psychology show that if we disagree, each of us will grow to hold a more extreme position.
So 2s often become 1s, and 4s can yet become 5s (the hype machine?). But once you’re a 1, or a 5, you’ll make other 2s and 4s into 1s and 5s, due to arguing with them on the opposing stance.
Re-re-5. That’s the definition of Trolls, not just mine 😉 And haters can be trolls. Haters are people who hate something, it’s an emotion/thought-based definition. Trolls is an action-based definition, someone who wants to stir up trouble. Sometimes haters also troll, but many trolls are not haters.
It’s nearly impossible to identify trolls outside of a specific society, heh.
P.S. I used 1/5 not as “1 out of 5”, but as “either 1 or 5” 🙂
Ugh, didn’t copy my reply this time and it got ate!
1. You’re welcome 🙂
2. 1/5 is meant as “Either 1 or 5”. Extremes help. This is supported by marketing researches, and also a recent OkCupid post on correlation between how many rate you 1-5 and the amount of messages received.
There are too many 3-4s for you to really message them all, so you are more likely to message the 5s. The 1s had a different explanation there.
3. Consider effect from #5, if we disagree, if you think Bieber is a 4 and I think he’s a 2, we could end up thinking he’s 5 and 1. Disagreements polarize. People with extreme opinions will talk about it, and get others to discuss/hold extreme positions too.
4. The troll definition I used is the accepted one (heh, seeing as it’s the internet).
Hater is a thought/emotion-based definition. It’s based on what you think.
Troll is an activity-based definition, or perhaps motivation-based. Why you enter the discussion? To get people riled up.
Some trolls are haters, but not all.
And yes, it’s often almost impossible to tell who’s a troll, but when someone’s deemed as one, rather than an emotional and polemic hater, they’re usually banned.
I am sorry for taking this long before stopping by to leave comment. I read this post immediately but my mind was all focus on rebuilding, moving my site that I didn’t think I was composed enough to leave a proper comment.
You covered a lot of different topics here so I will just pick one of them to comment in the interest of not writing an essay in one go.
I have to be the first to admit that I only first heard of Justin Bieber thru twitter, I seldom watch TV or browse youtube so you can say I am more or less disconnected from the trendy/entertainment news of the world. I do however understand the meaning of your post since I too had recently been a target of some relatively minor trolling activities.
In general, I do believe human beings do behave like a herd. While we might all be individual beings, but we also like seek out for other individuals who agree with our preferences. And by the same token, some people may opted to adapt to a certain believe just to be associate with a certain group of people.
Sometimes, the herd mentality can be so overpowering that we can even do irrational things that we wouldn’t normally do, our visions could be distorted to bend the environment in order conform with the herd mentality. Like throwing a water bottle at someone, is that someone a human being normally do? But when someone is driven by negative emotion, it can easily override all conventional logic and do things we don’t normally do.
I promised to talk about that troll I mentioned so here it is:
While I didn’t think I am anywhere near being successful, however I do in fact have some haters following me around. This group of people created an account on twitter that bear striking similarity to my username and copied my bio exactly word for word. They read my tweets and try to find ways to twist my words around in such a way in hope it will upset me in some way. They never talked to anyone directly but consistently use the #Dollfiedream tag in hope that someone will notice them eventually. A rather passive way of trolling someone I must say… perhaps it gave them a sense of satisfaction by talking to themselves. They also went to great lengths to try to protect their real identity though however, perhaps didn’t want get caught badmouthing me in front of everyone.
Heya Wolfy! No worries on that! Definitely cool that you’ve got your new site up!
Trolling is interesting – I have been trolled a few times too, and it’s really difficult not to give in and argue with trolls, especially when it’s a personal attack. But, after understanding my own personal feelings about certain celebrities, and how other haters react to celebrity activities and what surrounds them, I’ve been more able to let stuff like that go.
You make a good point about groups of people doing irrational things. It really is a herd thing. You see it happen in cults all the time, though those are deliberately driven in a specific direction to act a specific way, no matter how irrational it may seem. (I’d say that’s proof then in fact).
As I was mentioning about how to take trolls, your story sounds pretty crazy compared to the average troll. It does make you think on how people would go through such great lengths to hate someone, for whatever reason that may be. And sometimes, it doesn’t really make sense on why they do these things. If confronted and asked “Why do you truly do this?”, many of them will either say “I don’t know.” or come up with a completely irrelevant or irrational reason. Of course, if one truly hates something/someone for a specific reason, that reason being a valid one, then the effort put in to show or express that hate, or to cause ruination to said hated subject would be a direct reflection on the level of hate that person has (which in my mind, is worth looking at as something worth correcting).
If a person truly understands you for what you’re worth, and yet you’ve done nothing wrong, then said person typically won’t hate you or have a valid reason to hate you. Any offense that you’ve created would only be valid from their perspective, and are usually generalizations of the extreme. Of course, there’s something to be said about “majority rules” as well. All that goes into social taboos and stuff, and probably goes beyond the scope of this post. ^^;
It was fairly difficult to ignore their accusation at first and I couldn’t help but to feel compelled to see what they had to say initially. I also can’t help but wonder who could spend so much time to read my tweets and figure out a way to twist them around. I wasn’t really bothered by what they say since it’s mostly garbage, but over time I had begin to figure out who they really are (but unfortunately no way to prove someone did something on the internet unless you caught them doing it redhanded) I was finally able to put it past my attention and focus on what I do.
We are all human beings and I can’t claim I have never made a mistake, or said something that could possibly upset someone in someway. I too constantly reflect upon myself and try to correct my past mistakes. However, if some people are willing to go to such length and shameful way to get back at me, then perhaps they were never meant to be my companion to begin with.
That is pretty bad… though you have to also think about this troll’s track record. If he does this all the time to other people too, then for certain this person is just out to make trouble for people, and is easily offended. And also, usually if you were to do something wrong, more than one person would be offended, in which case correcting course would be a good decision. But if it’s just one person, it’s just a difference in opinion, and that person simply decided to take more drastic actions. (obviously unless of course you deliberately were attacking someone, which I doubt you were anyway).
Some people can be finicky. It’s the internet after all. And because it’s the internet, misunderstandings happen all the time, mistake or not.
I don’t really care about him one way or the other. Although one thing my boyfriend mentioned to me surprised me. He lost some award for best new artist to someone who has had staggeringly less financial success? I’m repeating 2nd hand knowledge since it’s something don’t really care about, but that seemed off…Kids in the industry these days are so talented, the child actors/actresses I watched growing up (in general) seemed far less talented than most of the ones I see these days. For example I accidentally watch an episode of iCarly every once and a while and can’t get over what a talented bunch they are. How do I accidentally watch it? Well I love Spongebob and sometimes I forget to change the channel after and before I know it I’m watching iCarly.
In the end I don’t care how much money you get…I wouldn’t want to be a celebrity. It’s not worth it to me.
Yeah, he lost to [someone] Spalding. Not only less financial success, but less known too. Her name was trending on twitter when it happened, and it contained everyone asking “who is she? Spalding who?”
Personally, I don’t find her that great. I listened to some of her music and it’s just not my thing.
I think what people want isn’t to be a celebrity, but what they want are all the benefits being a celebrity brings. They don’t see or understand the downsides, and therefore hate/envy celebrities only for the benefits.
I hope that the messages that the social movements of the youth today will have a better impact than what we have done in the past. This world needs some serious changes.
I totally agree. omg.
I’ve always asked my friends who say that they hate Beiber why they do. I always end up getting the same response, “He sounds like a girl”. I would reply in return, “I think he sounds like an angel. I’m a girl, and I wish I had a good a voice as his.” my theory is that people will hate out of fear and ignorance. Other people around them hate Beiber, so they in turn hate him. I guess we want to have the same opinions as those around us to feel like we’re a part of the community and to not be ostracized by friends. And yet, we don’t want the reason for our hate to be “other people hate him, so I’ll hate him too.” That may be why people claim to hate him because “he’s gay” or “he sings horribly.” Convincing these people that their hate is unsupported and immature is hard. I think that this post will create many Beiber lovers out of Beiber haters. Before reading this post, I didn’t care too much about Beiber. But now, I’m starting to like-heck, I’m starting to admire him!
Thanks for commenting, Cell!
That’s exactly my point – people just want to be accepted, and therefore will just follow along like sheep rather than make their own assessment, because it’s the easy solution. Could you imagine what the world would be like if EVERYONE took the time to educate themselves on matters? It is mind-boggling.
I still can’t say I like Justin Beiber, because I honestly don’t. I don’t like his music, or what he’s becoming (which is more and more manufactured). I appreciate what he does as a person though.